Last month, I shared the story of Shannon, an investor in western Canada who tried to open an account with TD to buy their low-cost e-Series index funds. As their name suggests, the e-Series funds are intended for online clients, and investors like Shannon who try to access them through their local TD Canada Trust branch have had frustrating experiences. Many bank staff seem to have no idea what an e-Series fund is, and those who do dare not speak the name aloud.
Shannon recently contacted me with an entertaining update on her ongoing adventure:
“I thought I’d let you know how it went with TD in setting up the account so I could purchase the e-Series funds. We’ve been in the midst of untangling our mess with [our former advisor] and put the TD stuff on the back burner, but I went in today to open the account.
“I know I could have applied online, but I really wanted to see what the experience would be like. I’m at that age when my curiosity has overtaken my natural shyness and ego. In other words, I am no longer afraid to look like an idiot. And there were so many different experiences noted on your original post that I felt an obligation to follow this through. As a middle-aged woman, I get few opportunities to engage in espionage.
“I called ahead and said I wanted to open a TD Mutual Funds TFSA. When I got there, I was met by a rep who was new to mutual funds (of course), so her supervisor sat in on the meeting. It took us an hour and a half to open the account.
“The representative I talked to on the TD Investment Services hotline said that I should tell the branch staff that as I was unsure what I wanted to invest in, and that I just wanted a money market fund for now. He said not to mention the e-Series funds. (And he works for TD!) So I did that.
“The supervisor looked at me as if I was a virus about to topple their entire system. She said that wasn’t how it worked. I couldn’t just ask for a money market fund — we had to go through their Customer Investor Profile, and it would tell me what I should buy. I said, ‘OK, let’s answer the questions so the recommendation at the end is a money market fund.’ She became very red in the face and I thought I might have to administer CPR. The newbie wasn’t saying a word. The supervisor said that that was impossible, we had to work through the questions, blah, blah, blah.
“Finally, I couldn’t take it anymore. I broke down and said I only wanted to open the account so I could buy the e-Series funds. A hush fell over the entire bank.
“When the supervisor could speak again, she said she that if I was going to purchase those funds, I had to go through TD Waterhouse. I explained that the rep on their hotline had told me I didn’t have to open an account with TDW. Luckily I’d printed off his email and brought it with me. The supervisor didn’t believe me, but I think she could tell that I was going to walk if she insisted.
“We then spent 45 minutes going through the Investor Profile. During the whole time, the supervisor made side comments about those funds not doing as well as TD’s other mutual funds, and that they were not for the sophisticated investor, and that I would receive no help from a trained TD rep. I patiently answered the questions, trying to ignore her comments. The newbie, irritatingly, read every question and every response aloud, sometimes raising her voice to speak louder than the complaining supervisor. It was surreal, and I’m sure that after a few glasses of wine I’ll look back on it and see it as an episode of Fawlty Towers: ‘Basil Goes to the Bank.’
“Finally, the supervisor, certain that I was threatening TD’s corporate structure, decided I had to sign a Transaction and Account Maintenance Form saying. “Client wishes to invest solely in money market fund as she may look at purchasing e-Series funds.” I left with 18 pieces of paper, having to sign six different times. I’m sure the supervisor had to lay down somewhere after I left.
“The hotline rep also suggested I bring the three-page account conversion form to the branch, along with a void cheque. The newbie said she would see that it got into the mail, though I have no idea if it will actually end up where it should. There was so much paper on the desk that I won’t hold my breath.
“I understand that TD is also in the business of selling high-MER mutual funds, but why offer the e-Series funds if even the hotline staff encourages you to lie about your motives, and you’re treated by the branch staff as if you were challenging their entire way of business? I’m convinced of the value of index investing — I’ll never do regular mutual funds again — but may have to find a different way to do it.”
There’s no question that TD makes it harder than necessary to access their e-Series funds. But you don’t have to endure an ordeal like Shannon’s. Here’s what to do:
- If you’re opening an RRSP or non-registered account, and you’re already a TD Canada Trust customer, simply complete the online TD e-Series Funds account application. Print the form and mail it in with your signature.
- If you’re opening a TFSA and you’re already a TD Canada Trust customer, apply online for a TD Mutual Funds Tax-Free Savings Account. Once it’s opened, convert your account to a TD e-Series Funds account.
- If you’re opening an RESP, or if you’re not currently a TD Canada Trust customer, you will have to visit your local branch and open a regular TD Mutual Funds account. Then go home and convert your account to a TD e-Series Funds account.
- Finally, you can access the e-Series funds (as well as all other mutual funds, ETFs, individual stocks and other investments) by opening an online discount brokerage account with TD Waterhouse.
{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }
Next Comments →
The above experience is almost identical to mine. The person processing me had to call the main location that process efunds several times. She missed several points on the applications and I had to go back a second time to redo them.
As soon as I had mentioned I wanted to open efund accounts I got a look like I was carrying a plague.
They did not try to talk me out of it though. One thing I had trouble with though is now being able to have both a regular MF account and the Eseries. At first I was told I can’t invest in both it had to be either / or. That I fixed over easyline by phone later.
I also invest in their divided paying monthly income fund. I know it has a higher MER but I think it is also a fund with a decent return. Especially now that the eseries funds have performed very flatly for most of this year.
Didn’t I read that you can purchase the e-series funds through other online discount brokerages? If so, why go through the hassle of a TD account?
I too had an amazingly hard time opening my on-line TD Investment account. I tried to do it on-line, but it was sent back to me telling me that I needed to send it all through the mail. I did that, and it was all sent back to me telling me I needed to go into the bank. I had done the questionnaire already, so I brought it with me to my appointment. I also brought a copy of the magazine with the “Couch Potato” article in it. The advisor I got didn’t want to read the article, even though I thought I would make it easier to get across what I wanted.
We finally managed to get the account set up, and it was the right type of account the first time. When I brought my young daughter (21) in with me to have them set one up for her, they set up a TD Waterhouse account instead, crazy day-trader that she is! We had to go back to the bank and have it redone. I even brought in a copy of my paperwork, so they could open the right account.
It seems that the employees don’t have a clue what they are doing.
I got my e-Series funds without an account and without hassle. I just filled out the form and mailed it in. TD automatically sent me a bank card to use for online access.
Then a year later, I tired to do the exact same thing for my girlfriend (now wife). They sent back a letter saying they couldn’t set up the e-Series since she did not have a TD account.
Either someone went the extra mile the first time, or they changed their policies between that time period.
@FrankP: No, you cannot buy the e-Series funds through any discount brokerage another than TD Waterhouse.
Looks like I will be in the minority on this one. TD supports the e-series funds and wants you to purchase them in the manner that they were designed for – that is, through a low cost, no nonsense internet platform. Unfortunately, as a result of certain regulations they need actual signatures so you do need to print and mail the forms. TD advertises it separately from its existing full service mutual fund account and considers it a different product so why should we be surprised that the TD mutual fund advisor located at a branch does not want to assist in setting up a do-it-yourself product that is designed to be facilitated through the internet.
My view is that TD (and all banks) should have some workstations available at the branch for people to use to sign up for the bank’s internet based products, credit cards, etc. The staff at the branch would then assist with questions, submit the printed versions of the forms if necessary, etc.
@Greg: I agree that the e-Series funds were not intended to be actively supported by branch staff, and clients should not expect that. But unless we’ve set the bar for customer service really low, I think customers can expect a familiarity with the product. How hard is it for the staff to say, “Sorry, you have to apply online. Here’s a brochure that shows you how”?
I expect a certain amount of upselling pressure from every company, but there’s a limit to what’s acceptable. If I order a salad at McDonald’s and they ask me if I want to add fries and a drink, I can live with that. If I order a salad and they tell me they’ve never heard of such a thing, and then the manager comes out and says, “Oh, yes, salad. Well, that’s actually really bad for you. We recommended the bacon double cheeseburger,” then that’s just dishonest.
To Greg,
I disagree with your comment.
As a client of Td for over 20 years and a business client as well with significant deposits in TD I would expect an employee to take an hour out of their busy day and assist me. Also as a non computer expert I do not feel 100% safe using my home computer to bank on. Maybe my home security / firewall could be breached? Half my neighborhood has open wireless?
I find your reply dissapointing for a bank that has 1 B in profits and more and more telephone assistance goes offshore taking jobs and the taxbase benefit to Canada from those jobs had those jobs stayed here.
I have a RRSP and a non-reg e-series accounts with TD, and was wondering what other types of accounts can be converted? I see you can do a TFSA, which I will have to get around to doing, does anyone know any others? Specifically I am looking at a future job shift which would allow me to port my pension to a LIRA, it is a very small amount but is it possible to set up an e-series LIRA?? I’m sure I can hassle easyline for the answer, was just curious if anyone had an experience with accounts besides RRSP and non-reg
My problem and why I came down hard on this article is that the original article makes it sound like the person went to sign up in person to “test” the branch and “to see what would happen”. It seems like the intent was to go in and cause problems by phoning ahead and setting up an appointment for a TD Mutual fund account without mentioning on the phone that they actually wanted a different product – an e-series account. In the process it also sounded like the person tried to do an end run around the “know your customer” questions (which, IMO, are important) by insisting that the manager not ask the questions and simply park the money in a money market fund. The correct approach would have been to answer the questions, get everything set up and then submit a conversion form to have the account converted.
@Paul: I don’t disagree that your home branch should go out of their way to help long standing customers. Sorry I did not make that clear in my post. I also feel they should provide a place within the branch for sign-up for online products and assist customers in doing so. But, the reality in today’s day and age is that there are some products, business, services, etc that are provided to customers only online (such as ING and Ally) – that is the reality of doing business today regardless of the amount of profit a company makes.
I am sorry to hear the unpleasant experience folks are having with TD. May I suggest they file a complaint. There is an online customer survey available at:
https://www.tdcanadatrust.com/custserv/contactus_feedback.jsp
My own experience as a client with TD could not be further from what is described above. I have been maintaining several accounts with TD bank for a very long time and investing with TD Waterhouse since its creation. I don’t recall a single incident that gave me a cause to complaint.
When the e-series index fund was created years ago, I found easy to invest in them. While I now use ETFs more than e funds, I recently activated a few e-funds I had closed, because I see a need to use them to catch the imperfect drip of my ETFs. Opening these e-funds again was easy.
In addition I recently set up a TFSA account with TD. While I was at the branch one day I ask at the information desk how to proceed. I was told it would be best to make an appointment, which I did. The employee I saw was pleasant and experienced. I knew him from loan applications. While I found the process slow, taking about one hour, it was not difficult. I had to answer many questions and sign several pieces of paper, but nothing I would describe as making me feel uncomfortable.
I did not want to transfer any money into the account before it was fully functional and accessible online. The bank employee reacted normally to this request and did not offer any advice on mutual funds or anything else. He called me about four days later to let me know the account was now fully functional. It was a very brief call and he did not try to sell me anything.
In the past I also met a TD financial planner a few times and a financial adviser once. The planner was helpful with retirement planning and did not provide any investment product advice. Regarding the TD financial adviser, he was honest enough to let me know very politely that there was no incentive for him to maintain the relationship due to my exclusive reliance on index funds and ETFs, as they don’t provide any reward for the advisers. I was consulting him to review my asset allocation policy. Nevertheless he was willing to share his expertise with me and was open to more meetings if I wanted.
I don’t know the inside story at TD, but I suspect that the e-funds are the subject of internal pressure from the mutual fund sales people who dislike them and see them as stealing food for their table.
Perhaps the simplest way to access the e-funds is via TD Waterhouse. While Waterhouse gives you access to a wide range of financial products, there is no obligation to indulge. One could restrict the holdings to e-series mutual funds without any concern.
I you visit a restaurant that has no vegetarian option, even if you know they have one that’s not on the menu or that is only available with advance online ordering, I’m quite certain it would not be a lot of fun to talk the staff into providing you with the veggie stuff on the spot, particularly if they never heard of it! As e-series investors I’m afraid we are the vegetarians of the financial world.
I opened a couple RESP accounts and converted them to eSeries accounts with no attitude from TD staff. The person helping me knew of them and was friendly. There was reams of paper, and too long in the investment profile but that wasn’t her fault. Some of the red tape (ie. showing up in person, investment profile) are regulations imposed on the bank rather than their chosen process.
One other thing that could be in play is something my mother always says. Generally, she thinks people treat men with more respect. Being a man, and unobservant by nature, I’ve argued that this is not the case in the 21st century, but after practicing the observation thing, I’m beginning to think I may be wrong, which is unfortunate on both levels.
It’s better to do this by opening a TDW account anyways for two reasons:
1. You don’t need to “convert” your account.
2. Once you get $100k in household assets in TDW then you’ll qualify for ActiveTrader status and your commissions drop by two thirds.
Sure – you can mangle your EasyWeb side into e-series but why bother when it’s a click of a button to see the Webbroker side. Anything on the Webbroker side shows up on the EasyWeb summary, too. It’s a no-brainer.
Great writing and wonderful comic relief in this post. It reminds me of Stephen Leacock’s bank story. How about a sequel: try opening an account with the TD Private Investment Advice service. Whisper you have a large sum to invest and insist on speaking with the director, no less. Then see her turn apoplectic when you state you have $100 to invest in a TD e index fund…
Here’s what sounds like a job description for a TD financial advisor:
http://www.tdinvestmentadvisorcareers.com/
But seriously, are other banks any better?
I can’t say I had any problems when I was trying to open my TD eSeries account either. The staff was friendly and knowledgeable and I come into the branch for eSeries related questions all the time and have no problems.
I wonder if these are isolated cases or I just go to a really awesome branch.
The easiest way to access the TD e-series index funds is via TD Waterhouse and WebBroker. It’s available to any investor with a modest level of internet skills. There is no reason I can think of to avoid these tools for this purpose. It makes buying and managing the e-series much easier.
But if you insist on doing it via the TD bank platform, here’s how… from the horses’s gilded mouth:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/mutualfunds/tdeseriesfunds/new_acct.jsp
Here’s the TD text version:
Open a New Account
Establishing a new TD e-Series Funds account is easy. Follow these simple steps below:
TD e-Series Funds Understanding and Consent:
As this is an Internet account, it is important that you understand the terms and conditions of the TD e-Series Funds Understanding and Consent form.
You can invest now or later:
You may prefer to have us make your initial TD e-Series Funds account purchases, or you may wish to invest yourself using TD Canada Trust’s EasyWeb Internet banking service after your account has been opened. However, if you are not currently a customer, we will require a cheque payable to TD Investment Services Inc. drawn on your financial institution for your initial purchase.
An Original Signature is required:
Your TD e-Series Funds account will be opened after your original, signed application, and TD e-Series Funds Understanding and Consent form are received by TD Investment Services Inc. (TDIS). Unfortunately, we are unable to accept applications by fax. Instructions for mailing are included on the application form.
What will happen next:
Once we have received your completed and signed application forms, your account can be opened, and your first trade processed within two business days. Fund prices may change within this time period.
As soon as your application has been processed, you will receive confirmation via email. The confirmation email will include detailed information on how to access your new account using EasyWeb.
All applications and trades are subject to approval by TDIS.
The application is in PDF format and will require Acrobat Reader.
For assistance in completing the forms, call EasyLine at 1-866-222-3456.
The note above is from TD and is available to the general public at:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/mutualfunds/tdeseriesfunds/new_acct.jsp
Disclaimer: I have no connection with TD bank other than being a client.
To : Greg
Thanks for your reply and the clarification.
My only point to add is with PC Bank, Ally (GM’s bank), or ING I know what they offer from the start. They have limited services, and I know from the start that i have to on-line bank or have 24 hr holds on money transfers etc. I have accounts there as well. I expect more from TD then those limited service banks.
I would also like to clarify that my only “out of the ordinary” experience with TD was this, otherwise i also would endorse TD Canada Trust as the best bank overall today. There was more to this one experience that was bad. (Promised calls and e-mails that were ignored while opening the account). I was originally a Canada Trust customer before the merge and quite worried about how the bank would change way back then. It turned out to be o.k. The service level at Canada Trust was really amazing, I always seem to benchmark everything from my experience with them.
I picked the TDWH route few weeks ago, process took 30min… the rep even mailed me the next day to tell me that he subscribed me to the ‘electronic service’ so i could save on account fee’s…
So far so good !
I have owned TD e-Series funds for a little more than a year and in my experience it was very easy to open the discount brokerage account at TD Waterhouse. Let’s be careful and do not generalize, the service from TD is not that bad.
All I can say is… wow.
Poor Shannon. Shannon, once you get enough cash, get outta those e-funds and into some ETFs. No more problems
Thanks for sharing the story Shannon and Dan.
What a crazy process for Shannon, and frustrating to boot. Thanks for sharing, Dan.
Hmm…
I think you have to know who to talk to. My experience:
I went at lunch time to the TD Waterhouse office at 55King. Filling out the paperwork took about 10 minutes (3 forms), gave a 1000 check to open account.
When I got home around 7PM there was a message on my answering machine that the account was open. I logged in an put a limit order that day, no problems, no hassles.
I think it really depends if you know what you are doing. If you want to open a TDW account go to a TDW office not to a branch!
PS. I already had a TDW RRSP, so maybe thats why the process was easier.
I too had no difficulties setting up my td efunds account and I had nothing with td prior to this – and I was able to link my non-td banking account to it no problem
Just thought I would share my experience with TD:
I did as much research prior to visiting a branch as possible, filled out and printed the account conversion papers and went in (without an appointment) and met someone within 10 minutes.
The mutual funds representative was also new to her post, and hadn’t heard of the e-Series funds. I think we almost ended up opening a Waterhouse account because it was the only thing that sounded like what I was describing (e-Series TFSA). She asked a senior advisor and he knew about the funds immediately.
All we had to do was go through approximately 10 investor profile questions, open a regular TFSA Mutual Fund account, and send away the 3 page conversion papers with my opening transaction description and cheque. They sent it through inter-company mail for me and everything worked out great.
I was very pleased with the level of service I received, although I thought it bizarre that they don’t promote such a great product more extensively. I suppose they would rather have newbies stumble into their higher priced options. Thanks to CCP’s recommendations I had knowledge of the e-Series funds in advance!
@Kevin C: exactly – where is our Elizabeth Warren of Canadian Consumer Protection? The fact that Banks are trying to increase profits by tricking us into the same product at higher fees is ridiculous. Another example where knowledge, research and reading the fine print makes you money and everyone else *stumbles* into higher fees to subsidize us. Sigh.
Hmm.. I was hoping to open e-Series accounts for my 2 kids aged 3 and 5.. Wonder how the investor profile will go over with them. Might have to resort to basic mutual funds.
I don’t think an RESP is an option as this is money paid into the kids accounts due a family trust structure.
I’ve had nothing but good experiences with my eFunds account so far, but I’m worried that this is about to change because I’m switching banks and the account that I’ve used for the past eight years to fund my eSeries purchases is going to be closed. I didn’t see any way to change my “funding account” online so I can purchase funds using money from my new bank account, so I had to submit a help request via EasyWeb and was informed that an Investment Representative would be in touch with me by telephone. Uh oh!
I always assumed the eSeries were named “e” for Electronic, which meant everything was handled online and you couldn’t open these accounts at a branch. In fact I’m pretty sure I read a statement from TD to that effect when I opened my accounts back in 2002 or 2003 — they said that these funds were online-only and that was how they kept the fees low.
I have both a TD and TDW account. To open my RESP with e-Funds, all I did was go online, log in to TDW, go through the new account process. Since there are various signatures needed, they mailed me a package to sign. It instructed me to go to the branch to verify signatures. Various ID etc is necessary (like my spouse’s). The TD investment advisor was very helpful and called TDW to verify things. He made a copy of the ID and faxed it all in. Although in the end TDW had sent me an old form and I had to repeat a few steps, in general it was painless, and no ‘conversion’ was necessary.
e-Funds are worth the hassle, IMO. It isn’t surprising that investment advisors at the branch level despise them.
I had no issues opening a RESP mutual fund account with the intent of converting to a e-Series account, the rep didn’t know this could be done but after I explained the process she thanked me for educating her on it. I was told I still had to do the Investor Profile even though I’d be only purchasing the money market fund anyways but it was no big deal and went fast. No problems here and even if there was I wouldn’t care because I’m still saving money in the long run. At least until the account gets big enough to open a TDW RESP and purchase ETFs.
This entire matter is a gratuitous dramatisation of something that is otherwise difficult for a few people to understand. People, it’s simple: go to the TD web site to open an account; follow the on screen instructions; submit the required paperwork; wait a week.
I’m inclined to think that anyone who can explain this much detail about their trials and tribulations over opening an electronic-only account would be equally falbergasted by a mechanic’s explanations of an automobile’s moving parts.
And this is what stings the most: If you can’t figure out how to open the account, then this type of account is likely not for you! If you can’t figure out how to open the account, you won’t be able to figure out how to make purchases within the account, hence this type of account is not for you! If you have to have people help you along your way, you incur overhead expense, and thus these products are not for you!
Sheesh.
@Paul: I think it’s important to point out that if you’re not already a TD customer, you can’t simply apply online. The online application clearly states that non-TD customers to have to apply in for an account at a TD Canada Trust branch and then convert the account.
I should also say that one of the reasons I posted this in such detail is that it’s genuinely funny.
I have had a TD account for more than thirty years and TD Web banking since it was a dial in number. I am quite familiar with their programs and still I was met with the same resistance that Shannon faced when I tried to get a Web Broker account. First through the online application I was instructed to go to the bank with the application. The bank sent me to TD Waterhouse where a Financial Advisor tried to get my account (he still fills my mail with information). I did not want to fall back into the same system we had with Raymond James. I went back to the bank and this time I thought I was getting my Web Broker Account but simply wound up with an Online Investment account which allowed me to buy TD Mutual Funds. This did not meet my needs. I looked at other banks and decided to give TD one more try. I applied online and took my papers to the branch. Once again my appointment started with the bank rep bringing up my financial information and then telling my what I needed. After two previous failures I used my assertive voice and said that I wasn’t interested and only wanted the application processed. Finally success! I have had my TD WebBroker Account for almost two years now and it totally meets my needs.
Thank you so much for this post. This was exactly me when i was setting up my TD e-series account. The best part was that the person setting my TFSA account was a very good friend of mine, and even she tried to brainwash me into getting a higher MER account.
Her supervisor and every other co-worker said i needed to get an account through TD Waterhouse. I couldn’t believe how hard i needed to work to get this account up and running. I’ve never had to defend my intent to GIVE THE BANK MONEY before… and the whole ordeal left me very sour with TD.
Its even worse when I KNOW the person trying to sell me on a higher MER account has a) no idea why it is or isn’t better than an e-series or what an e-series is and b) is pointing a a big colorful pie chart to try to “educate” me on the benefits of a more actively managed fund!
I went to TD yesterday to see about opening an account. When I asked about a low-MER index plan, she suggested e-funds and set it all up. No problem.
I’m from Montreal, Quebec. I went to my local TD Branch, and open up the cheapest account (Value Account, jan 7, 2011). I receive 5 checks, some useless papers, along with my easyweb access and the access card for the green machine. It took 25 minutes of my time. Then, I went to the green machine the next day, and I put 1750$ in this account. After that, I filled the form to create a new E Series Mutual Funds account, sent it over mail (jan 10, 2011), and I waited. After 10 business days (jan 24, 2011), the mutual funds account was there, but no access to E Serie funds. Then, after 3 days (jan 27, 2011), I was finally able to buy E Serie funds (740$) . The whole process took 20 days overall.
I am about to have more than $60k in my RRSP in e-series.
I often heard of around 60k being the max value insured to have in a bank account.
Is it safe to go on and keep having all its retirement money in 1 account ? I want to simplify and ideally everything should be at one location… how do you proceed ? Are you concerned about the insurance issue ?
Thanks.
@Fab: I think you’re talking about CDIC insurance limits (they used to be $60K but are now $100K), but these apply only to savings accounts, not to other investments. There’s no concern about holding large amounts in investments at one financial institution, because even if the institution were to go bankrupt, they have no claim on the securities in your account. See the Canadian Investor Protection Fund for more information:
http://www.cipf.ca/Public/CIPFCoverage/WhathappensifmyCIPFMemberisInsolvent.aspx
This post describes the exact procedure to get this set up. Basically you open up a TD mutual funds resp account and then apply to convert it to a TD e-Series account and then makes your purchases. Here is another post on getting started and please check out my asset allocation post on this subject. This post contains a sample RESP portfolio using the e-Series funds and includes the exact fund names as well. Thanks to the Canadian Capitalist for doing all the leg work on the TD accounts.
It is unfortunate that her experience was so difficult. I had a great time setting up my TD RSP Mutual Funds account with my regular TD banker. He helped me cheat on the questionnaire to achieve a 100% equity recommendation (GREAT GUY!), to enable me the freedom of purchasing whatever I want without raising any eyebrows. Unfortunately he was unaware that I would have to convert my account to purchase e-series funds, but that wasn’t a problem as I just mailed in the form and Presto! the conversion was done. However, the form took 2 weeks to arrive at it’s destination though as the postal code printed right on the form was invalid (I called them up and bitched about this, hopefully it has been solved).
Intriguing reading all the comments–they really helped me open my e-Series account. I’m not a TD client and took the route of opening a regular MF acct and not mentioning the “e” word – and it was quite painless.
Simply went to a branch with printout of a regular MF acct app that I had previously completed. The relatively green adviser was grateful and simply re-input the info. Told him I wasn’t making initial contributions, but gave him the info for my non-TD bank, which he linked to my new MF acct. He (incorrectly) stated that I wouldn’t be able to buy funds electronically from a non-TD acct and would have to do this in-branch, but his supervisor came in and after some obligatory upselling, she said it was fine, and I could.
At the end of the 1/2 hour appt, we set up my TD Access card. Went home, made sure the EasyWeb access worked – had to wait till the next morning – (did a dry test run to try to purchase any fund and make sure the external acct was linked, then hit cancel). Then completed & posted (via express post) the conversion form and in 3 days got my confirmation email and made my first e-Series purchase via EasyWeb linked to my non-TD acct. Overall 6 days total from my 1st appt!
Worked great, minimal frustration, and I didn’t feel the need to test anyone or break any rules. Other than the $18 for express-post (which is totally optional), didn’t cost a dime or much effort.
Thanks to all!
Quoted from Brad: “I always assumed the eSeries were named “e” for Electronic, which meant everything was handled online and you couldn’t open these accounts at a branch. In fact I’m pretty sure I read a statement from TD to that effect when I opened my accounts back in 2002 or 2003 — they said that these funds were online-only and that was how they kept the fees low.”
Yes! Someone gets it! Let’s think about this for a minute, folks. They are e-series accounts. They are designed to be handled completely online. That’s why the people in the banks don’t know anything about them… because they’re meant to be used over the internet.
Applying for the e-series account in a branch is like going to a car salesman at a dealership, and asking them to sell you a part… it’s just not what they do. It’s “not their department,” which is what the branches should be telling you. Just like the branch will try to sell you mutual funds, which is something they DO sell, that car salesman might try to tell you you should buy a new car instead of fixing your old one!
@Roger: No one disputes that e-Series funds are meant for online clients only. However, that doesn’t excuse TD from training its staff to simply explain that to customers. The point isn’t that the branch staff should be serving e-Series investors, only that they should not willfully put obstacles in front of current or prospective TD customers who are trying to access these funds.
To extend your analogy, if a customer goes to Toyota dealership and asks for a fan belt for their Corolla, the professional response would be, “Sorry, sir, we just sell vehicles here. Here’s a number you can call for information about replacement parts.” It’s not, “Fan belt? We’ve never heard of those. Besides, you’re probably better off replacing the whole car. Let me show you the new Highlander…”
The process for setting up an e-Series account is unnecessarily convoluted. Compare it to what customers go through when they open an online mutual fund account with ING Direct. Because ING has no invective to up-sell, they make the process extremely easy. There is no reason that TD could not do the same (with the possible exception of RESPs, which do require more paperwork).
Unless you’re a TD client, the notion that e-Series accounts can be completely handled online, including opening them, is misleading, if not false.
The first line of the application clearly states This application can be used by existing TD Canada Trust customers to open Retirement Savings Plans or Personal Non-Registered accounts. For all other account needs please visit your local TD Canada Trust branch. They’re telling you to go in if you don’t bank with them (ID, etc. needs to be verified, I suppose). You can’t mail it in or submit online.
And when one does go in to a branch, the staff’s lack of knowledge of the product (or, if there is no lack, then resistance), causes frustration. One ends up opening a regular Mutual Fund account, and the conversion process creates another simple, yet seemingly unnecessary, step. From that point, though, the online, or “e” part, takes over, and one need never visit a branch again.
TD, or their e-Series at least, should, take cues from ING’s model. At a most basic level, there ought to be a better-looking, more welcoming, website for this product. One that doesn’t look like it was designed by lawyers and accountants!
I tried opening an e-series account and it’s been an exercise in frustration. I followed the instructions on the website to the letter; downloaded the form, filled it in, signed it, answered all the questions on the investor profile, then took the lot to my local branch and asked them to send it in via their interoffice mail service.
When I didn’t hear after 2 weeks had passed, I sent a message via TD’s website asking how I could check to make sure they received the application. They emailed back telling me to call their Easyline number and speak with a mutual funds specialist. When I did this, the guy told me he had no way of finding out whether or not the application had been delivered because that part was handled by another department, but that he could see on his computer that no e-series account had yet been opened. He then proceeded to try to talk me out of buying e-series mutual funds, assuring me that regular ones would perform a lot better. When I told him I was looking for a lower MER, he continued with his sales pitch and wouldn’t back off until I became a little agressive. At that point he became very cool and informed me that he couldn’t help me, and I’d just have to wait and see whether or not I ever got any notification that an e-series account had been opened.
I then decided to log into my Easyweb profile and send a secure email explaining all that had happened to date and asking how I could find out whether or not my application had been received. A week later I received a reply telling me to call the Easyline number and speak with a mutual funds specialist. As this was what I’d already done previously, and what I’d TOLD them I’d already done previously, I didn’t see much point in doing it again.
My local branch say they’re unable to help me because they have nothing to do with e-series mutual funds. They say they’re handled by a completely different department.
Not sure what to do next at this point. Maybe I’ll just keep my money in my mattress!!!!!
@Dorothy: I’m sorry to hear about your experience. As you can tell from the other comments, this is typical. If you are inclined to try again, I might suggest that you open an account with TD Waterhouse, the bank’s discount brokerage. This should be fairly straightforward. Once the account is open, you are free to make whatever fund purchases you want without interference from TD’s sales staff. That includes buying the e-Series funds:
http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/products-services/investing/discount-brokerage/types-of-accounts/asglac.jsp
I went to my branch and opened TFSA and RRSP mutual fund accounts and bought the “ordinary” version of the “e-series” funds I wanted. I then converted the accounts to “e-series” by mailing in the filled out application form. When the accounts were converted, I ” switched” the ordinary version for the e-series version online through “easyweb”. Took a bit of time to open and then convert, but was not a big deal.
Hi there, I am interested in opening up TFSA/RRSP to buy e-series accounts.
With TD Waterhouse, I looked at the fee structure,and you have to pay an annual adminstration fee for RRSP accounts of $100.
Are there any fee difference if purchased through EasyWeb and TD Waterhouse? Is that why people go to the trouble through EasyWeb? Otherwise if the fee’s are the same, I would think, as other posters have mentioned that it is easier to open a Waterhouse account.
I currently have EasyWeb and am a TD customer w/ a mortgage with TD
@Mike: I don’t think the account fee applies to EasyWeb, but I’m not sure. Best to call TD directly and ask them.
Hi, maybe this is a silly question. I’m a TD customer. I just went to a branch and opened my TD Mutual fund for RRSP 2 days ago (didn’t purchase any investment, just open the account), immediately after that I sent the conversion forms. As everybody says it’ll take 2 or more weeks to be processed I’ll miss the RRSP deadline. I plan to invest 50k, so if I miss it I’ll have to pay taxes on those 50k (big lose!). I can see online that my TD Mutual Fund acct is opened, I can even purchase regular funds if I want to. So my question is: can I just purchase 50k of another MF (i.e. Money Market funds) to avoid missing the RRSP deadline and then just wait till the conversion is done and then transfers all the funds to the e-series? will I lose any $$?
I also heard that purchasing the investments takes time (I provided my PC banking account for the TD mutual fund acct opening). So that makes me worry even more. What’s the fastest way to purchase?
Thanks
@Edge: I would definitely call TD as soon as possible to confirm, but you should be able to to make your contribution immediately, even if the account hasn’t been converted to an e-Series account. In some cases you have to pay a 2% penalty if you then take the money out of the fund before 90 days, but this probably doesn’t apply to money market funds. Call them and ask.
Next Comments →
{ 4 trackbacks }