I’ve grown used to the antics of mutual fund companies and commission-based fund hawkers who criticize index investing. It’s predictable, pathetic and unlikely to change. What really disappoints me, however, is when the antics come from an investment company that I thought was one of the good guys.
Readers of this blog and my work in MoneySense know that I have often recommended the TD e-Series index funds for Couch Potato investors. They have the lowest MERs of any retail funds in the country, a long record of low tracking error, and the added benefit of being available online without a discount brokerage account. But this week I got an alarming email from Shannon, an investor in western Canada who is untangling herself from a large and notoriously expensive financial services firm. Shannon has decided to get started with index investing and, having read about the e-Series funds, gave TD a call. Here’s how she described the bank’s behaviour:
“First, we were encouraged to invest in regular TD mutual funds. When we said no, we wanted the e-Series index funds, we were told that the I-Series were just as good and could be bought at the branch. Again I said no, we want the e-Series because the MERs are lower, and they said they’re not that much different. I said every bit counts, and they asked what were we paying on our other investments. I said between 2.75 and 3%. They said they had mutual funds with lower MERs than that, and higher returns than the index funds, so why didn’t they have a wealth management specialist call me?”
Sure enough, a TD rep called the next day and explained to Shannon that index funds simply aren’t a good a good investment, and that she should instead choose from TD’s lineup of actively managed funds, which carry fees between 1% and 2.7%.
It was classic upselling, like you’d get from a fast-food restaurant: Would you like any muffins or donuts with your coffee? Would you like to super-size your fries? Can I get you some fees with those mutual funds?
Amazingly, the TD rep failed to mention that the TD Canadian Bond and TD Canadian Equity funds failed to outperformed their e-Series equivalents over the last five years. (To be fair, they were neck and neck.) Or that the TD U.S. Blue Chip Equity Fund couldn’t even beat a lowly S&P 500 index fund over the last decade. I’m sure it slipped his mind.
“Why wouldn’t TD champion their own e-Series funds?” Shannon asks. “I get why they want me to pay higher MERs on their funds, but should it be this hard?” Of course it shouldn’t be this hard. And yet a search through other Canadian finance blogs suggests that Shannon’s experience is hardly unique:
- Youngandthrifty.ca reports that it took her six weeks to set up an e-Series account “mainly because when you walk into any TD branch, no one knows what the heck you’re talking about.”
- Million Dollar Journey related a similar story: “There was some resistance when I mentioned the e-Series account. Even though it is a TD product, it is an online product only, and the personal banker wouldn’t even talk about it. I suspect it’s because they receive no commission or recognition for selling the TD e-Series products.”
- Learn Save Invest says, “I had to actually direct the staff to the web page on TD’s site to explain to them what I wanted.”
It would seem that the easiest way to open an e-Series account is to fill out the online application and mail it in. If you do want to deal with your local TD branch, a number of bloggers suggest telling them you want to open a regular TD Mutual Funds account. Once you fill out the paperwork and get your signature on file with the bank, then you can go home and convert your regular account to an e-Series account. That will at least help you sidestep the bank employees who try to talk you out of it.
If you’ve had a good or bad experience opening a TD e-Series account, please post a comment and share it with other readers.
{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }
For what it’s worth, I opened a TD e-series account a couple of months ago without any problems on TD’s end. After reading the various blog experiences I was prepared for almost anything to happen, but it was quite painless.
I’m in London, Ontario and went into a local branch (Cherryhill) to open a Mutual Funds account for a TFSA. I told the funds rep right off that I was only doing it in order to access the e-series and that I’d need money transferred directly in-cash from an ING TFSA account.
The rep knew about the e-series accounts, didn’t try to upsell any other funds, and accepted my desire to simply have the transferred funds deposited into a money market account. There was a bunch of administrative nonsense (filling out one of those risk surveys for instance), but it all got done on the same day and she was fine with me bringing back my e-series registration forms the next day to put in their internal mail.
I chalk the relative ease up to my knowing exactly what I wanted – a product of the stories shared on MDJ and the various other blogs. So thanks to those that shared, it made it very easy for me.
I’ve often wondered why TD offers the e-fund index funds when they don’t really go with the rest of their (expensive) product lineup.
Even if you open the account online, you still have to set up a TD mutual fund account first and then convert it to e-funds. Why the extra step?
I hope it doesn’t happen, but it wouldn’t shock me if they merged the efunds into their higher priced index funds.
When we went in to TD to setup our RRSP account, the person we spoke to was very helpful, but it was obvious there is a line drawn between E-series funds and regular ones. The E-Series is a DIY investing strategy. The MER savings gives you more money but provides you less support. It certainly seems setup to direct people to the non-e-series funds, since, as others have mentioned, no one at a branch knows much about them.
It did take us a while to figure out what to sign up for and how to actually get money in there, but once we did everything has been fine. We currently have 2 e-series funds and one regular and have no complaints at all after the initial complications of setting it up.
I had the same experience. No one at the local TD bank knew anything about the e-funds. It took weeks and weeks to set it all up but it was well worth it. I hate paying high MERs with other mutual funds
I too went the same route – had a regular TD RRSP for years. I converted it to eSeries first, then converted all my holdings into the eSeries funds until I hit my ‘international potato’ allocation of 20/20/20/40. I finished it all by printing the form off the web site and mailing it.
Setting up a regular mutual fund account with TD allows you to access their lineup of Investor series funds. Subsequently converting it to an e-series account simply allows you to buy/sell their e-series funds, and stops paper statements. You still have the ability to purchase their Investor series funds, pre-bundled portfolios, etc.
I recently setup my son’s RESP with the intention of purchasing e-series funds. I simply made an appointment at my branch and setup a regular RESP mutual fund account. I had to go through the “Know Your Client” questions to determine my risk tolerance, and in the end of course some Investor series funds were recommended.
I instructed the TD advisor to setup the default fund as the TD Canadian Money Market fund. Our initial deposit went into this fund, and automatic government deposits will also go to this fund. I will manually switch to a portfolio of e-series funds once the deposits come in — this will prevent any short term trading fees that would be incurred if an Investor series fund was set as the default.
I went home printed out the PDF to convert to an e-series, and mailed it in. It took about 1 – 2 weeks before I got an email indicating the account was converted.
All in all, the process was fairly painless. However, I guess the bottom line is that you must be informed, and know what to ask for. I would think that readers of this blog are more informed than the average investor.
I don’t know why you guys find this shocking. I’m still relatively young (23), so I remember full well my job experiences at McDonald’s and Best Buy. I’ll make it simple: the only time Best Buy management advocated using “online” as an option is when we were sold out of product. Selling things from the store is almost always more profitable, and also results in a higher attachment rate of SERVICES (we were told services are “100% profit”).
Anyway, the point is, if you’re a business like TD Bank, you want your customers to grab the actively managed funds. If your customer has actively managed funds, the likelihood of getting more money from the customer increases. Why is everyone so shocked that these TD people barely even know what an e-fund is? They were probably never told because they’re not supposed to push that product.
I opened a TD e-series account last year, and did it all online and mailing in the forms and initial contribution. It was no problem, and started off right away as e-series accounts.
Separately, this year, I moved funds from another RRSP that were all in higher fee mutual funds. I went into a local TD branch, and they were extremely helpful with getting all the paperwork done (and following up when the other financial institution dragged its feet) and all the funds were transferred into my e-series funds without incident.
I’ve subsequently had a grand total of one email from the individual who assisted with the transfers inquiring if I wanted to open a self-directed account or speak with a planner, so that’s not bad.
I’m on board with the concept that the lower fees come with lower service model, and less hand holding, so happy with the e-series funds and the experience with TD.
The RESP accounts for all 3 of our kids are invested in TD e-Series funds. I find the best strategy to invest in TD e-Series funds is to not even tell the advisor at the branch what you are going to do and simply sign and send the form to convert an account into an online-only account.
Also, Shannon should note that TD e-Series funds are not meant to be sold by advisors at the branch or reps over the phone. They are meant for DIY investors who require no hand-holding and are only sold online.
I don’t know if I would fault TD Bank too much for trying to put investors in higher fee products or trying to upsell. After all, their primary responsibility is to their shareholders. Unfortunately, that’s how the money management business works. Shareholders take priority over unit holders.
I have been a TD discount brokerage customer for a while now and I only heard about these funds through the odd blog posting. It’s as if they don’t want you to know about them. It may have something to do with the ‘no advice’ aspect of a discount brokerage since I understand these funds are only available for online purchase. It’s a case of conflicting interests: you want to save as much of your money as possible and they want to take as much of your money as possible. That’s why it’s important to educate ourselves and share knowledge through blogs like this one.
A few months ago I went into a TD branch to set up an e-series account for my RRSPs. I was under the assumption that it would be easier to do all of this in person instead of printing out the forms and sending them on their way.
In the end, I wound up with a discount brokerage account. When I got home I slowly realized that this was not what I originally wanted. I called up the advisor and asked if I could change it to an e-series account. She actually did not have the slightest idea of what I was talking about, even though she sat with me in person as I explained my intentions.
I e-mailed TD’s investment helpline, asking if I was still able to invest in e-series with the account that I had. They were far more helpful than the advisor at the branch. For others’ benefit, this was their response:
“The TD e-Series can only be bought and held within an e-Series Account or in a TD Waterhouse Discount Brokerage Account. The e-Series account is a variant of a TD Mutual Funds Account in which investors can hold the e-Series of funds. An investor can hold the e-Series Funds in this account along with any other TD funds provided that he or she conduct all of his or her dealings with us online. In all other respects, it is a normal TD Mutual Fund Account including the fact that you cannot hold anything other than TD Mutual Funds in the account.”
Thanks so much for the great information. We are about to launch into TD e-series territory and have two questions after looking at the on-line form you must fill out. Perhaps those with experience can help. Can we just purchase one fund – let’s says the Canadian Index fund – and that’s all? It sounds as if once we fill in the questionnaire we are obligated to split our money into their pre-determined percentages. We already have our asset allocation strategy worked out and have our money in other places, we really don’t need TD’s advice. Also on the form, on the second page under ‘Important Customer Information’ is says “TDIS is not responsible for activities its representatives conduct for TD Bank. TD Bank is not responsible for activities its employees conduct for TDIS.” Isn’t that weird? Who’s in charge?
Same experience as others here. The branch had no idea what we were talking about. We filled out the online forms. My account went through with no problem but there was some issue with my husband’s form. They sent a form letter telling him to go to our branch to clarify the information on the form. Again no one knew anything about the e-funds. He phoned the number on the letter and was put through to the investment division. They didn’t know anything about the e-funds and transferred him to the mutual fund division. They said the e-funds didn’t fall under their domain and transferred him back to the investment division. He finally got transferred to some sympathetic person in investments that said although it wasn’t his area he would investigate and get back to us. He did call back that day and had fixed the problem. It took about 1 month to set up my husband’s account.
I was able to open a TD e-series account with ease. I filled in the application on-line, took the application into a local branch where I was issued with a “bank card number” and the account was opended within a few days. The person at the bank was quite helpful and new what I was trying to do.
Several years ago I went in a TD Bank branch to inquire about the e-series funds. I was curtly told “They are no longer available” Then she proceded to ask me all about my banking and how their chequing account account with a monthly “package” was ideal for me. No thank you. I don’t write so many cheques.
In a way it was a good lesson. It was then that I found out about ETF’s and have never looked back at any mutual funds since. If you have over 50K, ETF’s are much better value than even the e-series. Plus, with a DRIP (Dividend reinvestment plan) setup most of your income can be re-invested just like a mutual fund. The only negative – you cannot invest small amounts regularly. It becomes too costly.
@GDK
You should review your transfers into your RESPs since you are going from the regular funds to e-series. Although you can change the client deposits to e-series online, you have no control over the government deposits through your online account. Enjoy your phone call to Easyline. It’s not as simple or informed a process as you might have thought.
Last March my wife and I moved our RRSP accounts from a TD Waterhouse mutual fund accounts (which came with a TD Waterhouse advisor) to TD Canada Trust e-series index fund accounts after reading several of your articles in Money Sense. The reason we went with the TD e-series mutual funds instead of an ETF account was that we both greatly prefer to invest on a biweekly basis with a regular payroll deductions and that this sort of set up is much more difficult (if not impossible) with an ETF account.
Let me just say that the switch over was the worst experience with a financial instituion that either of us have ever had. A very long story short it took us a full 3 months to open the e-series account and transfer our funds. The only reason we are still with TD at all is the praise the these mutual funds receive through web sites like this. We’d be long gone if I could find similar deal elsewhere.
I had as much trouble as anyone opening my first account. I had read that without an existing TD account you couldn’t fill out the mail form so I went in to open one in branch. I had to direct them on their webpage to the e-series info, as they had no idea what I was talking about. Finally after explaining why I wanted e-series and not their “advanced growth” or whatever the upsell of the month was I opened a non-registered mutual fund account with no investments and she helped me fill out the paperwork to convert it. She did tell me I had to open a TD checking account (which it turns out you dont), luckily I was a student so could get a free one (which I still need to cancel….) which was her attempt to get some kind of money out of me.
The second time I wanted to open an e-series RRSP I did it using only the online forms, and although it bounced back once cause I missed one spot to initial, it opened with not too much difficulty. I do wish the process was simpler, although the low MER is definitely worth the effort. Although if you have a lot of trouble opening them you may not be too motivated to handle your own finances, and the extra fees for the advice portion, although that is another can of worms all together…..
All in all after the initial pain of setting everything up is over it runs fairly smoothly
Emma,
Once you have your money in a TD Money Market account (for instance) and you’ve got your account enabled to use the e-series funds (by sending in the .pdf form on the website) you can switch your funds from the Money Market account to any other fund in whatever percentage you like.
Just be sure to hit the “switch mutual funds” button, not the “purchase mutual funds” option
– we had a bit of an issue with that difference. An Easyline phone call sorted it out quickly though.
@Ace82
I have already gotten a government deposit into the Money Market Fund and transferred to 4 different e-series funds (can, us, intl, and bond) the next day with no issues. Just because you convert to an e-series account, it doesn’t mean you can’t hold other non-eseries funds (like the Money Market fund).
When you set up a RESP, you just have to specify what is the default fund you want the deposits to go into, and the government deposit will automatically purchase units of that fund. Setting that default to the Money Market allows to you subsequently manually set your asset allocation by transferring the government deposit to whatever funds you choose, and ensures you don’t get hit with short term trading fees (I think all other funds, including e-series have these).
Although I’ve had the e-series for a few years, I had the same difficulty getting them in the first place. I had to tell them what they were!
I went into TD in person to speak with someone about getting the e-series funds set up. The woman I dealt with had never heard of the e-funds, however she was very helpful in calling the TD investor help line (or whatever it’s called) to find out what I needed to do. She then printed off the necessary forms for me to fill out and mail in myself.
She did also try to get me to open an account with TD, as they had a promotion on at the time offering $150 to sign up for a chequing account. I declined and got out of there with just the necessary forms. The process was painless after that.
@GTK (my apologies for the misspelling previously)
Why would you want to use the MMF, and have to transfer manually every time the gov’t puts in a deposit? You could just have the gov’t portion deposited automatically into an e-series fund. If you set up the allocation correctly (across the four funds) taking into account the gov’t contribution (which I believe you can only put into one), you only have to rebalance once (twice a year tops). You are doing rebalancing every month this way.
Thanks for sharing another story Dan, excellent information.
Agreed, if you do want to deal with your local TD branch (always a good idea) I would most certainly recommend opening a TD Mutual Funds account. Once that account is open, you can easily buy your TD e-funds from there.
Emma,
Although I haven’t done the online route myself, I know with the in-branch route (visit the branch, open the account) you can basically pick a few funds “they recommend” (TD Dividend Growth, TD Bond, TD US Index and TD Global Dividend) to match what the advisor will say is your asset allocation based on your TD risk profile. That’s fine, play along, having 4 funds above for example in 25% split. After you get your access TD EasyWeb within 5 business days, you can switch (not sell) any of these four funds for your preferred TD e-funds and take advantage of index investing with cheap fees (as Dan “Couch Potato” Bortolotti encourages). Good luck and enjoy!
I signed up for an e-series RRSP account at the beginning of the year. I found a good thread on RFD about peoples experiences. It seemed that you can only sign up online if you are already a TD customer. Otherwise you must sign up for a regular mutual fund account and have it converted.
At my local TD branch they were very helpful. The adviser even mentioned that she was in the process of changing her own investments over to e-series. I went to the appointment with a copy of the e-series conversion form, and after I was signed up with the regular account I filled out the conversion form. The adviser offered to send the conversion form through their internal mail to speed things up.
The account was up in about a week, but there is/was a bug in their system that wouldn’t let me make my initial purchase online, so I had to call to make the first deposit.
My experience was almost identical to Jak’s…no blank looks, no upselling…
It definitely helps to be prepared:
- have the e-series form filled out and ask the rep to send it via internal mail after the account is setup
- select the money market fund as a temporary holding spot so that you can transfer with no redemption fees as soon as the e-series form is processed
I had a conversation with a TD employee by phone which left me feeling very weary. I am not a TD account holder and wanted to visit a branch merely to “talk” to someone about the steps required to open an account in order to purchase their e-series funds. I was quite surprised when the response was – we don’t have a salesperson on site at this time but the branch manager will be availalbe in a couple of hours. Granted, I did call on a Saturday afternoon but I was surprised to hear this response and was completely putoff by the term “salesperson”. I went on to explain that I was interested in purchasing the e-series funds for my RRSPs and there was no need to meet with the branch manager. Her response was – I don’t know about the e-series funds but our branch manager is an expert in RRSPs and would be happy to advise you. She then asked for my phone number. I politely declined to leave my phone number.
Thank you to all those who responded to my questions. I have two more if that’s okay – what is the form I am supposed to fill out and bring with me – the really long one with all the pie charts on it, or the Conversion Instructions two page sheet? And second, does any of this make any difference if it is a TFSA?
Thanks so much for including my experience, Canadian Couch Potato!
I’m a huge fan of your site =)
It makes sense though, the MER’s are so low because you don’t deal with people in the flesh. When you have people helping you in person, it costs more.
(Notice how all the big chains now e.g. Canadian Tire etc. all have self-serve check outs now?)
At the start I had some difficulty, simply because I didn’t already bank through TD. After struggling with which form to fill out and how I finally called the 1-800 number and the service rep told me exactly what to do.
I went into the branch and spoke with an investment specialist. She opened a regular RRSP account on the spot and then she even filled in the form to convert it to an e-series accout and mailed it in for me! I didn’t even have to pay the postage
Once I had the hang of investing my own money I went back in to the branch and through another investment specialist I moved all of my RRSPs from Fidelity into a Money Market accout. About 2 weeks later I received an email letting me know my money had arrived. Couldn’t have been simpler!
It wasn’t the easiest thing I’ve ever done, but it certainly wasn’t very difficult either. It took me a couple trips to the bank and some time invested in learning, to take control of my own money. Totally worth it in my opinion.
Same experience as GTK for an RESP account. I told the rep what I planned to do and she replied that the e-Series was for online purchases only and I couldn’t buy them. I told her about the conversion process and she had not heard of it before. I had everything go to a money market fund and will send in my papers soon. It really depends on who you get, some just know more about their products than others.
I’ve had a self-directed TD Waterhouse account for a long time, and it’s no problem to buy the e-series through there. Indeed, since it’s so easy to get one with no fees, that’s how I recommend other people do it, unless it’s for a small RRSP — getting the dedicated mutual fund account converted to an e-series mutual fund account is just such a labyrinthine endeavour that it turns people off self-management entirely.
Wayfare had a TD mutual fund RRSP account, and it was a pain to switch over to e-series (took two attempts, then the fund switch didn’t go well… ugh). Even after getting into e-series, Wafare was in the bank for RRSP season, and the salescritter there tried to sell her on some higher-MER balanced funds, saying that her 80% stock index allocation was too conservative for her age, and that the balanced fund (50% equities) would be better for her. Yikes!
Emma,
I would suggest you take the form into the branch with all the pie charts on it. Those slices of the pie (chart) will represent TD’s recommended asset allocation for you based on your TD risk profile. You likely got your TD risk profile by doing all the questions online; who are you; what is your investment style; experience; knowledge is; etc. Again, that’s fine, play along, get the printout. The key is to get a TD Mutual Funds Account opened; not so much picking all your favourite index funds right away.
Once you have the TD Mutual Funds Account opened, you can ask to be registered for EasyWeb.
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/mutualfunds/tdeseriesfunds/help_easyweb.jsp
From there, with EasyWeb, you can switch (not sell) the funds TD suggested you hold and hold instead the e-funds you want. If you don’t feel comfortable with online banking, then call the folks at EasyLine (refer to link above) and they can make the switch to e-funds for you.
Regarding your second question – yes, some difference with the TFSA since although you can hold TD e-funds in your TFSA, it is entirely another type of account than RRSP or non-RSP. You will need to tell them what account type you are wanting to open: TD Mutual Funds RRSP, TD Mutual Funds TFSA, other.
Good luck!
Emma,
This is the form you need to convert an existing TD Mutual Funds account:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/mutualfunds/tdeseriesfunds/pdf/ConvertAccount.pdf
Essentially the process I went through was:
- go to the bank and talk to a mutual funds rep. Told them I wasn’t a customer of TD but that I wanted to open a TD Mutual Funds account. I told them it was going to be a TFSA and that I’d need money transferred from an ING TFSA to the Mutual Fund account.
- the rep went through a risk analysis questionnaire with me (I think they have to) but it was only because she had to in order to get the registration completed. You have to be aware that if they sign you up to other funds than the Money Market, there may be early redemption fees if you switch out of them (i.e. there’s a fee if you switch out of the e-series funds within 90 days).
- the rep produced a bank card (my customer number) and signed me up for a TD Money Market account. I provided a Void cheque to link my chequing account from my bank, for sake of future purchases.
- I printed off and filled out the form above at home and brought it back the next day for them to mail for me in their internal mail system.
- it took a day or two for the actual mutual fund account to be activated online (i.e. with a 0 balance in the money market account) and then a few more for the access to the e-series funds to be granted. I think the e-series activation was accompanied by an email, but I’m not sure offhand.
- once the money arrived from ING I was able to switch money from the money market fund to the various e-series funds in whatever amount I desired.
- if you have issues, the EasyLine phone number is the place you want to call (i.e. the bank person will have nothing further to do with you). The couple of times we had to call they were responsive and pleasant, YMMV.
Good luck.
I opened a TD e-Series account early last year. I printed out blank forms at home, filled and mailed them; no contact with any TD employee. I was doing a transfer from another financial institution but didn’t realize they needed atleast a small amount in the form of a cheque (for verification purposes) to open an account. They returned the forms and I re-applied with a cheque for $400 split over four funds ($100 each) in addition to the transfer from the other institution. This time, I checked the wrong box for “transfer in cash” or “transfer in kind” from the other institution. A rep called me to confirm what I wanted and then, all was well. They sent my WebID and I’ve been using the account ever since.
I may have avoided the mistakes and subsequent delays if I had sought help (not necessarily from a TD rep but some other TD e-Series account holder) but I think I can live with the delays rather than having to deal with the marketing pitch.
I opened my mutual fund account at TD last December, and this is my first mutual fund account so I went in with fairly little knowledge except that I had heard the e-series offer low MERs. The advisor was very helpful, but was kinda dismayed when I asked about the e-series, but nonetheless provided me with the forms and details, and emphasized that there will be no investment advise with this product. Coming out I thought he was being rude, but thinking back on it he had been fairly helpful and truthful with me, so I do appreciate that.
I already had accounts with TD Waterhouse. Started investing with eFunds through webbroker , no hassles…
Calgary, Alberta.
Prior to opening my account(s) I had no other business with TD.
I made an appointment, talked to a rep, I indicated that I wanted:
- to buy the e-series funds
- to buy other funds and/or stocks
- to manage it all myself
- to have a non-RRSP account and an RRSP account
(later when tax free savings accounts became available, it was easily added for me)
The staff were very helpful to get me setup with a TD Waterhouse Brokerage Account. There were a couple minor glitches (on the Waterhouse online access side of things) but nothing to put me off of TD’s services.
I seem to recall that I also needed to have a bank account so I could get the access card but whatever banking account I setup it had no monthly service fees, it just existed.
(Side note: I’ve seen comments elsewhere indicating a chequing account is required and chequing accounts have service fees – this was not my experience. The savings account worked fine.)
Actually I’m a little confused as to what an e-series account is? I checked my funds and I’m pretty sure they’re e-series but with my waterhouse accounts I can buy pretty much any funds, stocks, etc on offer through TD Waterhouse.
Perhaps the notable difference is that there is an annual service fee for the waterhouse services if your balance is under a certain amount? Maybe the e-series accounts are free?
My overall experience: I’ve had dealings with CIBC, Royal Bank, Bank of Montreal and now TD. I’ve had by far the best service and least problems from TD.
I recently started buying TD eSeries funds myself. In my case I didn’t have any problems at all. I had been planning on getting into eSeries funds for a while, but I never had actually gotten around to setting up an appointment with the bank. I was at the mall one day at the TD Branch there wasn’t busy at all, so I just walked in to see if I could see somebody about getting investment accounts set up. Happily somebody was available right away.
She took me through the standard short survey that they use to figure out your risk tolerance, and after the computer gave its recommendation she asked if I was happy with that. When I indicated that I was, she started to get things moving. She told me that she was going to get me to buy the TD Bank Mutual funds and asked if that was ok. At that point I told her that I was interested in the eSeries, and she immediately said okay and got me set up with an account at TD Waterhouse.
So while she did initially try to direct me to the TD Bank mutual funds, she didn’t argue with me or do any kind of hard sell. Once I told her what I wanted she got it all set up for me right away.
I have my RRSP and RESP accounts in TD e-series accounts. Canadian Capitalist had step by step instructions on how to set up the RESP (you need to go in to show your child’s SIN number regardless) so that wasn’t too bad. For those that are still getting Money Market deposits, you can go and delete Pre-Authorized payment plans (once you are all set up) and change them to predefined amounts of other funds. The government deposits mirror what your pre-authorized payments are.
My main complaint is that you cannot really purchase e-series funds directly online if you are not an existing TD customer. It’s so painful to transfer your money from another institution (can’t be done through the paperwork/online), need to go into and transfer to money market and then when the transfer goes through send in the conversion form (again, can’t do it online). This was my new years resolution, final set up with an e-series account in May. An no, I’m not stupid.
All this is possible as ING proves (regardless of know your customer laws etc) so I’m not sure what the benefit is to TD to make the process so complex.
I tried going to a branch in my city, and they, like others were not too helpful. I spoke to one of the “advisors” who then directed me to another person who could help me out – person wasn’t there that day. He left her a message and said she would get back to me. I don’t believe she ever did. Anyways…
I have funds with RRSP and non-RRSP funds with RBC, and I have been wondering if anyone has switched accounts to the e-funds without issue or fees. Anyone know how it works so it’s painless?
On another note, RBC isn’t bad for index funds either. Their MERs are a little higher on the index funds, with better performance than other index funds (been a while since I checked Globe Funds to compare them with e-funds), but at least you can get the face-to-face transactions which could be helpful because as some noted, the TD branches are almost useless when it comes to setting up an e-fund, and asking general questions. I’ve been debating if the slightly lower MERs with the e-funds are worth the hassle of transfering over my RBC funds.
I received similar deer-in-headlights stares described by your previous posters at my local TD branch when I first asked about their e-series.
I opened mine directly in a TD Waterhouse (TDW) discount brokerage account, though, and this might explain part of the confusion: TDW is affiliated with, but not the same as, TD Canada Trust. The branch claimed ignorance based on the fact that TDW is just a subsidiary.
It should be no surprise that TD Canada Trust has little information on the e-series index funds. The whole point is to keep TD’s costs at minimum by having the client do all the work. I don’t mind that, considering the savings. The e-series funds are promoted as NOT being serviced through anything other than the ‘net, so what’s the problem?
i’m confused by all the confusing comments re e-series accts vs regular td mutual fund accts ? i have only one mutual fund acct at TD Canada Trust and it contains a mixture of fund types, e-series and non-e-series all running on a aut0-frequent purchase plan – what is the issue ?
i also have a self-directed rrsp, regular investment acct and a tfsa at td waterhouse – all of these contain e-series funds plus stocks, bonds and other funds
@Peter M: If your TD Mutual Funds account holds both e-Series and regular funds, then at some point you must have converted it to an e-Series account. An e-Series account does not prevent you from holding regular funds, but a regular account prevents you from holding e-Series funds. A TD Waterhouse account also allows you to hold all types of funds, including non-TD products, of course.
The issue is that if you’re a new customer with no current TD Mutual Funds account, the bank seems to do everything they can to prevent you from opening an e-Series account. They would rather steer you to their regular account, where you’d only be able to purchase their higher-priced funds.
I am also in process of opening a TD e-Series account and this post has been really helpful. My question is whether to open either a TD Mutual Fund TFSA or a TD Waterhouse TFSA and then convert it to e-Series? From what I have read so far, I understand I can buy other funds (non-TD) in the Waterhouse a/c. However, my plan was to open a Questrade a/c to do purchase stocks and dividend ETFs to save some money on the fees. I just turned 20 and in process of making my investment plans. So, please feel free to correct me and I would highly appreciate any of your suggestions/recommendations. Thanks.
@Everest: The first thing to understand is that TD Waterhouse is a discount brokerage (which allows you to buy stocks, bonds and mutual funds from all companies, including e-Series funds) while a TD Mutual Funds account only allow you to buy TD mutual funds. Questrade offers everything Waterhouse does with the exception of e-Series funds. So your best bet is probably to open a Questrade account for stocks and ETFs, and a TD Mutual Fund account (not a Waterhouse account) for your e-Series funds. Does that help?
I opened a TD e-Series for myself within Waterhouse for a TFSA and for my wife who does not have a Waterhouse account. It was harder for her as the branch did not really seem to know what they were doing. Waterhouse was easy as they just opened a TFSA for me and I can then buy whatever I want online.
I set up both accounts for pre-authorized weekly purchases of e-series funds… great way to dollar average.
Interesting to read the comments about the branch having no knowledge about e-funds. I too ran into the same problem a few years ago. I already had my regular mutual fund account set up and from reading advice from the different financial publications, decided for the couch potatoe e-fund approach. The people in the branch had no idea they existed and had no access to them. I was eventually referred to the TD Waterhouse rep and had to open another account with them to access the e-funds. Bank branch employees seem to be in the dark, (purposely?) about these funds. In the end, it all worked out fine but the extra hoops that I had to jump through caused me some frustration with their services.
I’ve used TDW self-directed direct trading accounts for some time and bought TD eFunds online without difficulty both through a non-registered account and a TFSA.
Might be some confusion too about TD’s terminology and penchant for using the e-prefix. You have to sign up for their “e-services” (so you receive online docs only, terminating paper statements & confirmations) in order to avoid annual service fees on their TFSA.
I did set up the TFSA through my local TD branch but only told them I wanted an account that allowed purchase of various stocks and funds. I didn’t ask for efunds nor did I tell them what I planned to invest in. Works fine for me.
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